LS Exam.

[wlday]

Anyone want to talk about Saturday?

I was able to take about 70% of the exam in the alotted time. This was my first attempt at the state. I completed questions 1 and 3 and got through part of 2.

Does anyone recall the exact point value of each question?

WLD

[pls7809]

When I took the test I could add in my head the number of points I think I had correct as I was walking out the door. I knew I had about 60-65% of the exam correct for sure and that meant I passed, which I did. If you think you got close to 80% of what you completed correct, you probably passed. The passing score is usually around 50% or so. If you're confident in what you completed then you could pass, even though you didn't complete it. My wife skipped a problem entirely on the state portion and passed, so it is possible.

Do you think it was too much test for the time allotted, since you didn't complete it, or were you not adequately prepared, or another reason for not completing? I'm just curious.

[sako]

I remember the total points of each problem, but I'm not sure if we are allowed to talk about it, because it's exam material?? I don't know.
One thing is for sure, those guys who prepared the "CLSA EXAM GUIDE", I owe you one. I know I cannot talk about exam problems, but once again THANK YOU.
One change I saw this time comparing to the other year’s exams was that we had more of those easy questions (2 or 3 points).

[pls7809]

It would be wise to refrain from going into detail about the test, but talking about time issues and total points and what not, isn't an issue...just the specific problems themselves.

[Kelley]

One of my workers sat for the State portion this weekend, he said he felt like the test was very fair.........

[Greg Sebourn]

...was a very interesting experience for me. This was my first and hopefully last time taking it. I thought the test was well written and fair. I don't recall any poorly written questions. ***Of course if I find out that I didn't pass I'll change my mind! ;^)*** The points were weighted towards boundary and theory. The Exam Guide was very helpful. The classes I took at Santiago Canyon College seemed to be relevant and helpful, too. For me, time was not an issue. I had enough time to focus on the problems that I thought I could resolve. The only unanswered questions were those that I felt would take too long for their point value (maybe about 10 points total).

I brought WAY TOO MANY BOOKS!!! Like everyone keeps saying, either you know it or you don't; and if you don't know it, you don't have time to spend looking up unfamiliar concepts in one of a dozen books.

[mi_amor]

I too took the exam this past Saturday. I came within 4 points of passing last years test, so obviously was able to review the test (which gave me great insight) on how to answer the questions. Though I can't speak in detail about the grading that I witnessed, but there is a definite "code" that you must answer. Its all about "cracking that code". I heard nothing but horror stories...about the graders, about the test itself, about so many things. How unfair it is, blah, blah blah! But I am so glad that I was able to review my test, and see just exactly how they do things. It helped tremendously. I will argue all day long, how FAIR the test is. How fair they graded it. How fair it all seems to appear. So for those of you wondering that famous question..........the answer is "yes, it is fair". Also, we had a great study group, and used many subjects as posted on www.hp33ssurveyor.com. John Butcher whom has created this web-site, is based out of San Diego. He is licensed in Arizona and Nevada (I believe..?). And so many things helped me for reviewing the test questions / answers.

I felt extremely confident in this test, and hope my confidence level is solidified in a few months (with the results being mailed).

If I do indeed pass, then I will be geared up ready to assist in future potential test takers, to assist in how to correctly answer in the format needed to "crack the code".

Good luck to all!

[pls7809]

Greg,

I was the same with the books also when I took it. Had a lot, but if I had something to look up, like a reference to cite or something, I generally knew where everything was. The books were only there so that I knew they were there, in case I needed them.

Hope things went well for you and the others who took the exam.

Ryan.

[Gromatici]

The exam is fair. I think that things went very well for me, and considering I missed last year’s exam by one point, I think I was very prepared. However, they are looking for certain keywords in our answers, and if I didn't use those key words, then maybe I won't get credit for those answers. Even though the test is fair, I don't think it reasonable to expect anyone to finish the test, and be able to check their answers. So what I did is check my answers for the problems I did and simply ignore a couple of the less point value questions.

Hopefully I'll pass and not miss by one point again. I appealed the test last year and had 7 more points taken away! Maybe because I only needed one point they scrutinized my test more? Anyway, I learned from my appeal that I was working too quickly and needed to slow down and not worry about finishing the whole test. I saw some dumb mistakes on my appeal, and realized I was rushing and should be more shrewd about how I was going to take the test.

[BBnut]

BOOKLET 1 130 PTS.
BOOKLET 2 65 PTS.
BOOKLET 3 90 PTS.
BOOKLET 4 115 PTS.

duh let me add, 400 total and gee I didn't even need an HP on Saturday, could have calc'd everything on my cell phone 4-banger calculator!!! LOL ha ha (but they don't allow you to bring them in the arena..

[sako]

[quote=mi_amor;6554]I too took the exam this past Saturday. I came within 4 points of passing last years test, so obviously was able to review the test (which gave me great insight) on how to answer the questions. Though I can't speak in detail about the grading that I witnessed, but there is a definite "code" that you must answer. Its all about "cracking that code". ......

My friend, there is something I got to ask you. I read your post 2 times and it's still a question to me what grading you have been witnessed. If you are talking about the appeal process and reviewing ones exam , I appealed 2 years ago and I don't remember the grading plan( with answers) being shown to me. You could merely see a copy of your answer book. Now what great insight that could be?
I read the post from Eric Ackerman and I agree with him saying you could see what a mistake you made, but that's only true if you know what the true answer is. The true answers are kept away from us like a secret. That's why CLSA came with a brilliant idea of answering the 2005 exam.
You are making the exam much more mysterious than it is, my friend. I thought you are talking about the Da Vinci code (just kidding).
One more thing I just added to this post:
Can somebody come with an answer to this question?
Why we loose more points after we appeal? Could it be just because they were nice to us at the first grading?

[CalifCarl]

I ran out of time, another five to ten minutes would have given me time to complete all questions. I know my answer quality went down about halfway through. I'm not saying I didn't answer the problems, but more of not adherring to a cleaner answer format.

I took the examine in Pomona. LOL Can I say what a joke without offending anyone? Completing the examine at 1:30 PM should tell you something.

My thoughts were the LS examinees were like an after thought. We didn't start with the eit and lsit's, some twenty minutes later. The proctor turned off his mic when giving our instructions to the LS's as not to disrupt the other two groups. Then all of the sudden we get the begin command, all before the examine booklets were properly marked and ready for testing.

Oh yeah the mic worked loud and clear as the EIT and LSIT's completed their test. Quite disrupting, but with all this whinning said, after about fifteen minutes of getting my head cleared and on track the test went pretty well. Could have been better as always. I didn't go to the books hardly at all except for answer formats in some cases.

[CalifCarl]

I guess I must have offended someone. LOL

[E_Page]

Codes and Keywords.

I think that I can let out this "secret" without violating my confidentiality agreement: The keywords are what is contained in the laws governing the practice of surveying. Any term for something that is identified in statute or code other than the codified term is considered slang. What might mean one thing in San Diego may mean something else in Alturas.

The code is simply knowing how to survey, explain your procedures, and communicate your conclusions effectively.

A couple of you, while saying the exam is fair in one sentence, claim that there is some nefarious code or secret system that is not born of the laws governing surveying or based upon sound doctrine of the practice of surveying.

Another secrect: If you are minimally competent as a professional surveyor, meaning that you no longer require oversight and can legally work for the rest of your career without it, then you know the secret code.

As to those horror stories about the exam development and grading process, invariably when I hear them and then ask whether the person relating the story has ever participated in the grading or development process, the answer is "no".

Of those of you who took the exam, some will pass, and I expect to see you at the 2008 grading session.

Otherwise, I will call BS on any complaints.

Go back and search last year's threads (January to March) about the exam. You will find some posts where I expressed skepticism. I promptly stopped when Denise Tomlinson of BPELS put out the challenge: Anyone being critical of the exam, have you participated? I had to answer "no" at the time, so I shut up and put my time where my opinions were. I graded last year.

The grading team members that I met seem far more dedicated than many of the examinees, spending long hours, sometimes skipping meals to get the job done, getting paid less than any of us make at our regular jobs.

The process was very fair, and I have nothing but respect for those who participate at any part of the exam development and grading process.

Many of you newer LSs may have seen the requests for "Subject Matter Experts" from BPELS recently. You may have also thought "Expert!?, I just got my license, it'll be quite a few years before I might be considered an expert among licensees."

Don't be intimidated, this is the avenue for getting into the grading and development process.

All levels of experience from new licencees to those who have practiced for years and are considered to be at the top of the field are needed for grading. How else could the process keep the standard appropriate and remain fair?

Speaking to someone from BPELS at the conference last week, I understand that they are still 20 or so LSs short of the number thay want to grade the exam.


Ryan!!! You are a fairly recent licensee and quite knowledgeable. Will I see you at the grading session this year?


My challenge to all of you:

When you all hear the exam horror stories, and you will, from an LS, issue the challenge: "Do you have first-hand knowledge of the grading process? Did you grade?" When they say no, and they will, before they give their excuses say "Oh, then I'm looking forward to your take on it after this years grading session. You have volunteered to grade, haven't you?"

Horror stories from those who did not pass is merely whining. Either identify where you were weak and prepare for the next test or spare us the blather.

Everyone is entitled to give their opinion. Not everyone is qualified to have one.

[RAM]

Evan, WOW, and right on!!! I am glad to know someone else thinks like I do.

RAM

[E_Page]

When I post in the evening, when I'm getting tired, the unvarnished attitude starts to show.

Now that I'm well rested and read it again, I might have been a little more diplomatic, but oh well. That's the truth as I see it.

[pls7809]

Evan,

I plan to get into the grading, but not this year. I have always been interested in getting involved in that, but time is usually an issue. This year I already took a three week vacation in January, so I'm actually in the negative in vacation time right now. The process, IMO is very fair based on how it was explained to me before I took the exam. I will really try to do it next year though. My boss here at DEA has been involved in grading and she has encouraged me also to try it out.

Great post BTW.

Ryan.

[CalifCarl]

Evan other than me I didn't see anyone else actually whining. More of just saying it how it is. I realize your rant is just that and has a purpose behind it.

But if you are pointing the BS finger at me you are out of line. You can't justify the conditions that were thrown at the Pomona examinees. Obviously I'm not complaining because I didn't pass the examine.

I saw an ambulance pulling in as I was pulling out, might have been a diabetic who was a hour and a half past his needed food intake.

[pls7809]

One of my workers here took the EIT in Pomona on Saturday and she said the proctors were not prepared at all. They didn't start the exam until 9 AM and they didn't have enough exam booklets for everyone and even asked for volunteers to postpone their exam until October.

[Greg Sebourn]

That's how it was...Carl's not complaining, just telling what the conditions were like. I could say a whole lot more about it but I don't think this is the right place to go into detail about it.

[RAM]

Doesn't sound like a good test enviroment. Anyone who feels they were affected by the test site NEEDS to put it in writing to the Board. The test should be given in an enviroment that is equal to all candidates.

[RAM]

PS. commenting here does not notify the Board, if they are made aware of the problem they can not address it.

[E_Page]

I agree with RAM.

Testing conditions have nothing to do with exam development and grading.

But I heard of similar conditions at the Sacramento LSIT venue.

The exam, while fair, is not easy under ideal conditions. The examinees deserve to have both adequate conditions and appropriate time to take the exam.

BPELS needs to be made aware of adverse testing conditions. I believe they contract out the administration of the exam (proctoring). If the consultant is not performing adequately, BPELS needs to hear it so they can decide on appropriate action.


Carl, I was not addressing your comments in my previous post. There were a couple of others who alluded to some sort of secret code or keywords not generally shared with the examinees.

IMO, the conditions that you described are unacceptable. My opinion as to the prospects of passing for those who think there is some code to crack should be obvious from my previous comments.

[CalifCarl]

Evan I saw your late night disclaimer after my last post. Most likely I would have let it go. ;) But no one was complaining about the secret code, but more did they over come it. Call it what they want, but if you don't know it, it still a secret! ;)

I've taken this test before, but this time around was the first time I had the resources and time to put into it. I would hate to think I may have came up short by a few points when the whole circumstances may have been a contributing factor.

But really I don't think I came up short, but we all know until the results come we don't know.

The Pomona issue will most likely never be addressed, beings there is most likely no solution. Unless the four test sites are analized separately. At least enough to see if there is a significant difference.

[D Ryan]

I believe, (maybe incorrectly) that test conditions may well be taken into account as part of the standard setting, but I doubt it would be given much effect. It's all part of the "psychometronics" of the testing process. Believe it or not, the minds behind the testing process recognize the stress levels that are created by various circumstances, but in their expertise they may decide some of things mentioned don't warrant consideration. I know I'd be more than a little aggravated if I did everything within my power to be as ready as I could, yet showed up to find chaos.