CR's for reset CL mons/ties & BMs not at cities

[land butcher]

I brought this up at a meeting years ago about CR's for CL mons/ties for street rehabs being filed at the County and not forwarded to whatever City they might be in.

The response was "We will give them a copy if they ask for it." In other words "Not my job."

I recently contacted a city in riverside county about BMs and specifically asked if they had their own or if they used other agency BMs. I received copies of data sheets for the 3 BMs I was asking for from the city.

One of these BMs was a br cap in conc post xx ft from CL reset 1972. Spotted on Google and the distance from CL is more than XX and it's behind new sidewalk. Field insp revealed a conc post w/br cap BMxx reset 2009.

There is a CR at the county but the city had no info on the reset BM so the City is distributing old inaccurate data.

Think there might be a problem here? I do.

There are a number of cities that do not have county BMs within their city limits, Los Angeles, Long Beach and San Diego come to mind. Have we created a research headache for ourselves?

I'm too old to care, but you younger guys/gals might want to address this issue.

[Jim Frame]

I brought this up at a meeting years ago about CR's for CL mons/ties for street rehabs being filed at the County and not forwarded to whatever City they might be in.

If the street rehab is a city project, the city is responsible for the monument replacement and associated CRs. If the city contracts that out, it can require the contractor to provide copies of the CRs as part of the project.

Since the county doesn't receive any funding to distribute copies of CRs, it seems to me that it's already doing the cities a favor by sending copies upon request.

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[E_Page]

I agree with the County on this one. The City could put in a standing request with the County Surveyor to receive a copy of any CR filed for monuments within City Limits, but it is up to them to ask.

Without the City asking, the CS has no way of knowing whether they really want the info or not, or specifically who they should be sending it to.

Shouldn't be much problem for the City to ask if they want those copies for their records.

Like you, I see a problem, but I think I'm seeing it at a different location in the comm link than you are.

[land butcher]

Like the letter in another thread here, if the County is requiring a stamped self addressed envelope from the submitting surveyor why would the county voluntarily send it to a city. Would the city pay to get a copy.
You have to remember we are talking about 50 cents inc cost of stamp and envelope.

Like I said, I'm too old to care.
But if it ever bites one of you guys in the pocketbook - I'm gonna laugh.

[Jim Frame]

The pre-Prop 13 days, when public agencies could add services without worrying too much about how they would fund them, are long gone (for better *and* worse). Expecting an agency to provide a convenient but non-critical (and arguably frivolous) service when they're trying to figure out which positions they're going to have to eliminate is simply unreasonable in the current circumstances. The cost of envelopes and stamps pales in comparison to the cost of assigning a salaried staff member to track CRs and mail paper copies to an array of ever-changing municipal recipients.

There are better ways to crack this nut. I live in Yolo County, one of the poorest in the state when it comes to per-capita tax receipts. We have a diligent -- if poorly-paid -- County Surveyor who scans each filed CR to a PDF for internal use. He then emails the PDF to the submitting surveyor, and adds it to the CR files that are available for download to anyone. No need for anyone to track city staffers, print CR copies, address envelopes or burn through stamps. Pretty darn convenient at very little cost.

.

[land butcher]

Prop 13 was passed over 35 years ago. Are we still picking on that bone.
I guess our economic problems today are Ikes fault.

[Jim Frame]

Are we still picking on that bone.

Yep, because that bone's still with us. Whether you think Prop 13 was a good idea or not, public agencies have -- not entirely without reason -- been very slow to embrace its full effects. As available tax revenues have dwindled, they've taken advantage of tech-driven efficiencies, spent down reserves, sold off surplus real estate, reduced staff through attrition, and made incremental cuts in services. Now that more and bigger budget reductions are being forced by circumstances that go beyond Prop 13 --national and regional downturns -- they're facing more drastic measures. But one thing is certain: for the foreseeable future, public agencies in California aren't going to be adding any services that aren't required by law or intense public pressure.

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[land butcher]

I guess you are right since not one home has resold or new one built in CA since prop 13 went into effect.

And no they were not slow to react, I cannot count the number of user fees enacted since prop 13 went into effect. And the continual added taxes to items under the heading of recycling fees on tires, oil, carpet, tv/monitor screens, added fees to utilities, the list is endless.

I am sure the high wages and platinum pensions and cadillac health care plans have nothing to do with their reduced budgets in other areas, such as closing parks, senior centers, .....

[MFORD]

Land Butcher is spot on about city, county and state revenues since the passage of Prop 13 in 1978. The Center For Government Analysis published a report in 2005 on the subject. Since that report user fees have increased even more as have government employee compensation and pension benefits.

[Jim Frame]

Both Land Butcher and MFORD underscore my point. Public agency executive management staffs have spent 30 years avoiding the need to bring services, staffing levels and compensation levels into line with revenues. This head-in-the sand approach was predicated on two notions: "things will get better" and "I'll retire before real cuts have to be made." In the mean time, they've taken only incremental stwps -- many of them one-time avenues -- to keep the boat afloat. That's not working anymore, and the piper is demanding payment.

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[Steve Martin]

Originally Posted by Jim Frame

Public agency executive management staffs have spent 30 years avoiding the need to bring services, staffing levels and compensation levels into line with revenues. This head-in-the sand approach was predicated on two notions: "things will get better" and "I'll retire before real cuts have to be made." In the mean time, they've taken only incremental stwps -- many of them one-time avenues -- to keep the boat afloat. .

The County agency that I used to work for implemented a General Management System to budget and staff according to revenue, not use one time funds for operating expenses and otherwise practice sound fiscal policies.

The broad painting of all public agencies as being fiscally incompetent doesn't always hold true.

[Jim Frame]

Steve is right, I generalized my experience with local agencies with which I'm familiar, in particular my home city where staff conspired with ambitious politicians to fleece the taxpayers for decades to come. I apologize to agencies that have pursued a more responsible path.

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[land butcher]

Originally Posted by Jim Frame

Both Land Butcher and MFORD underscore my point. Public agency executive management staffs have spent 30 years avoiding the need to bring services, staffing levels and compensation levels into line with revenues. This head-in-the sand approach was predicated on two notions: "things will get better" and "I'll retire before real cuts have to be made." In the mean time, they've taken only incremental stwps -- many of them one-time avenues -- to keep the boat afloat. That's not working anymore, and the piper is demanding payment.

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Ok, now I see what you were alluding to in your previous posts.

Govt agencies have this budget process that works like this; If the currant years budget was 500k and they only used 400k then next years budget will only be 400k. There is no incentive for agencies/departments to save money so every april they look at ways to use up excess budget funds.

Our elected are worse. The State is more than broke and they approve the moonbeam dreamliner, the bullet train to nowhere, which most money will go to offshore countries that "have the expertize" to build this thing.

No matter how much money we give them they will always spend 100% more.
Time to defund govt.

[Stephen Johnson]

Originally Posted by land butcher

Ok, now I see what you were alluding to in your previous posts.

Govt agencies have this budget process that works like this; If the currant years budget was 500k and they only used 400k then next years budget will only be 400k. There is no incentive for agencies/departments to save money so every april they look at ways to use up excess budget funds.

Our elected are worse. The State is more than broke and they approve the moonbeam dreamliner, the bullet train to nowhere, which most money will go to offshore countries that "have the expertize" to build this thing.

No matter how much money we give them they will always spend 100% more.
Time to defund govt.

Actually time to unman government. Empty the offices, especially the elected ones.

If your state has write in as an option get a campaign together to elect "None of the above" for every office at state, county and city and district levels.

[land butcher]

Politicians should serve two terms. One in office and one in prison.

Stop Repeat Offenders!!! Quit ReElecting Them!!!


I like that.

[Stephen Johnson]

Originally Posted by land butcher

Politicians should serve two terms. One in office and one in prison.

Stop Repeat Offenders!!! Quit ReElecting Them!!!


I like that.

I Borrowed both from other people on other boards. I just Wish I had thought them up.

SJ

[dmi]

My experience has been, that there have been nothing but cuts to public services. The fees have gone up and up and level of service has gone down. This is what one would expect from smaller staffs and less days open to the public.

With the notable exceptions of what was it Maywood or Mayflower, where there were actual crooks in the government lining their pockets, most folks are trying to do the best they can with what they have.

I am very grateful to the folks in city and county governments, Caltrans, State Lands, Cal Fire, and various other government agencies and offices without whose help work in our profession would become very very difficult, in short order.

Oh yeah and on topic, it is the surveyor's job to ferret out where the records wherever they may be.

[land butcher]

Oh yeah and on topic, it is the surveyor's job to ferret out where the records wherever they may be.

I did a field survey for a ex county office surveyor once, it was next to one I did, and that surveyor gave me notes I didn't know existed. When I asked about it the answer was, "Having worked there I know where to look that the general pubic doesn't get to".

Ever notice how these friday closures coincide with monday holidays giving them 4 day weekends and some cases most of a whole week off. Having 15 paid holidays + min 2 weeks vacation has zero impact on govt budgets. I'm not even going to get into the retirement packages. All this for jobs that carry no responsibility any more.

Then there is the City/County of San Francisco; Still awards contracts with affirmative action clauses (in violation of State law), requires sex change operations be covered under their HC plans, highest min wage in the country plus health care requirements then bids out city services to the lowest bidder giving businesses located outside SF a advantage due to the rules only apply to SF based companies.

Gotta love CA govt, esp that in the bay area.

Maywood, Bell, Vernon - those officials only made the papers because they got greedy, all of what they did is done at other agencies just on lower scales to stay under the radar.

[Dave Lindell]

Are you thinking of Cudahy?

[dmi]

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?se...ate&id=7588944



City of Bell. It was on the tip of my mind.

If one is sooo envious of the fabulous deal government workers have go work for the government and stop your whining.

[land butcher]

Originally Posted by dmi

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?se...ate&id=7588944



City of Bell. It was on the tip of my mind.

If one is sooo envious of the fabulous deal government workers have go work for the government and stop your whining.

I worked in govt service when you traded off high pay for job security. Thanks to affirmative action govt, for the most part, quit hiring non-minorities in the 1970's.
Had I had a crystal ball.........