Fees: R of S

[PaulS]

Ok. I have found many of my brethren to be most helpful in this forum...now I need to call on you all. I have not yet attempted an ALTA survey, but have been chomping at the bit. I have returned to this area and have an opportunity now to bid on one, but really do not know what is a "competetive" bid. It is in the Long Beach area of L.A. County (Bruce, this is your neck of the woods), it's in a commercial neighborhood and involves 1 parcel, approx. 0.1 acres. A 2-story Commercial building occup[ies the site.
Any suggestions, based upon past experience? I will be filing a R of S w/the county as well, ofcourse.

[Ian Wilson]

What kind of suggestions are you asking for?

Are you sure an RS is necessary?

[PaulS]

In a nut shell...what can a property owner expect to pay for an ALTA survey which will also require a Record of Survey to be filed. I WILL be setting corners. Again, I hope to bid competetively, and really wanyt this project.

[KellyWeir]

How about 1% property value?

[Greg Sebourn]

Kelly,
I like your answer!

[KellyWeir]

I've been trying different methods to determine billing rates and I am finding this method works well for me. Simple Corner record slam dunks .5%-.75% land value (use Zillow to determine value and comps in neighborhood). Record of Surveys double that. Record of survey + Alta figure 2-2.75% as base starting rates then adjust per conditions.

I really like this value bidding scheme. It makes it so quick to determine what a job is worth and pretty much has enough profit built in to cover most any job. I feel if a property owner is not gonna pay X% of the value of their land (per upper schedule) to have the boundaries monumented, map filed and or ALTA then its not worth it for me to do the work.

Oh and for ALTAs your right on always get them to do pay for a Record of Survey as a condition of doing an ALTA. My take is if you are showing easements, the structures and such in reference to the prop line, had to do a boundary resolution, all the research, set all the corners etc. then you would be a fool not to go the little extra mile after all that data gathering not to go for a ROS at least for the exterior. You are going to provide a better product for your client and besides a ROS is really a better format to represent commercial sites (most are larger than .1 Acre) rather than a Corner Record or no map just an ALTA.

[PLS7393]

Originally Posted by KellyWeir

I've been trying different methods to determine billing rates and I am finding this method works well for me. Simple Corner record slam dunks .5%-.75% land value (use Zillow to determine value and comps in neighborhood). Record of Surveys double that. Record of survey + Alta figure 2-2.75% as base starting rates then adjust per conditions.

I like your methology, and if there was a standard (as you described) even my county projects would be easier to bid.

[KellyWeir]

Paul, cool way to bid huh. I really stand by value bidding its a fair way to price many jobs and standardize bidding procedures. I am glad to see that others are liking this idea as well. It also helps you determine your true hourly rates after you do a few jobs. You will notice that you are worth much more than you think. Remember use Zillow as a way to see what the comps are in the neighborhood to help you determine the latest "value" of the parcel in question. I don't think this method could be construed as price fixing as there will be no fixed price on any job unless the properties are exactly the same. Good Luck!

[Ian Wilson]

How do you know you WILLL be setting corners and, even if you do, can you use a Corner Record? Has this parcel never been shown on an RS, PM, FM or Official Map?

Charge what the work is worth.

The ALTA is an insurance policy taken out by the lender for any defect in the property relative to survey issues. There is no other purpose for an ALTA/ACSM Land Title Survey. One mistake and a loss on the lenders part and you are in a world of hurt.

Charge what the work is worth.

[bruce hall]

figure how long it would take me to do the job, multiply it times my hourly rate, add so much for the part of town that the work is in(some parts of Long Beach I drive around, some parts I drive thru with my pistol loaded) and then add or subtract on how hungry I am.

My initial guess without even seeing the job would be one day topo, one day boundary, half day pre calcs/research, one day calcs/drafting RS, one-two day ALTA drafting/calcs depending on easemnts, then half day monumentation. If you have a county or city job and are doing this on the side, you should be able to charge more since you have a steady income and you can charge a more professional rate.

As to filing a RS, it is my opinion that just about(not all but almost all) every survey that shows or deliniates a property line, or lot line, or shows distances from physical features to the PL, will have to have some type of record filed(whether I set monuments or not), unless ALL THE MONUMENTS AT THE CORNERS OF THE PROPERTY are in, there are no physical changes to the record that do not appear on any record maps, and everything about the survey is the same as the records. There are many surveyors who do not hold to this, and that's okay with me. I am not the one that has to be convinced of their version. The one you who has to be convinced that a map doesn't have to be filed is The Administrative Law judge, if it gets that far.

Kelly's idea of percentages is a pretty good idea. I should try it sometime.

He who stands on the middle of a street gets stoned from both sides.

[PaulS]

Thanks to all of you. Ironically? After figuring my estimated costs, it DID come to about 2% of the property value.
Thanks again, folks!

Paul

[Ian Wilson]

Actually, Kelly, if we all agreed to setting the price at 2% of the value of the property and that no one would price themselves lower, that would be the exact legal definition of price fixing, regardless of the fact that the dollar amount for each parcel would vary.

[PaulS]

I can settle this by saying "I will not agree to setting my fees at 2% for these, or any type of job." There, I'm on record.

Thanks again, guys!

PS
I'm posting another inquirey re: liability insurance. I'm sure you folks can help me there as well.

[KellyWeir]

Ok Ian you can go 1% Lol . But seriously I completely concede to Ian's post and will also go on record as saying price fixing is bad and I don't condone it. Still its a neat concept for bidding I think, use it as you see fit.

[8483]

Originally Posted by PaulS

I can settle this by saying "I will not agree to setting my fees at 2% for these, or any type of job." There, I'm on record.

Thanks again, guys!

PS
I'm posting another inquirey re: liability insurance. I'm sure you folks can help me there as well.

Hi PauLS,
CLSA has a program going with Vista International with good rates. Good coverage. I think it runs somewhere from 2200 to 3000 a year, and it is a must have to practice in my opinion. Here is a link to the brochure. Good Luck.
http://www.californiasurveyors.org/files/Insurance%20Brochure.pdf

[LS 7891 Grenier]

I did a proposal for a property owner and used Kelly's method, but I was in somewhat of a quandry because the surrounding parcels all had existing homes built but his property is vacant. I took comps from Zillow all around his vacant land and averaged them out, then thought that it wasnt exactly accurate (not that it is supposed to be exact) to average property values based on home sales when his didnt have a home on it. Selling prices are determined by the value of the dwelling combined with the value of the land. Am I making any sense? So I took a guess at what the dwellings would be worth and tried to justify that I was being more fair to the pricing of the survey of his 2.5 acre parcel. I used the 1% because I want the job and because I am also trying the techniques from a previouis thread recommending Beardslee's Business Management Handbook for Land Surveyors by making a better effort to form a relationship with the client so he wont even consider looking for another surveyor. The price doesnt include a record of survey or anything, but it does involve filing a corner record and locating some existing utilities.

It came out a bit higher than I first thought, but it is worth the work I will provide.