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View Full Version : Positive steps after the California LS Exam


Sunburned_Surveyor
08-19-2004, 04:37 PM
There seems to be a great deal of energy on both sides of the debate about the California LS Exam. Perhaps
there is a way we can put all of this energy to use, for the good of the profession, and not the bad. I will propose an idea here, and allow others to share there thoughts and comments. But first I think I need to clear some animosity, and attempt to
lay a common foundation for parties on both sides of this argument.

I think we can all agree on two or three things:

(1) There are many licensed surveyors in the State of California with an immense amount of knowledge and experience.

(2) There are many LSIT's and young or new surveyors in the State of California that would greatly benefit from that knowledge and experience.

(3) The profession as a whole will only benefit from the sharing and dispensing of that
knowledge.

I think most, (but perhaps not all), will agree with this:

(2) The profession, and the public, will benefit from a continual influx of newly licensed surveyors. In fact the survival of the profession depends on it.

With that common ground established, I propose the following:

We form an orginization whose purpose is to help new surveyors advance in the profession by making available the knowledge, experience, and assistance of those that have been practicing in
the state as licensed surveyors for many years. This might initially pertain to only the LS exam, but with time and some hard work, it might expand to include the LSIT exam, and might have an
active role in recruiting young people to the profession.

I don't think it would take much to get this off the ground initially.

I envision a website or online forum in which a different surveying "problem" or "situation" is discussed each week. The problem would be presented, the LSIT's could offer there thoughts and solutions and then the experts (Licensed Surveyor's) could help us to see how they would approach the problem and why they would approach it that way. Although we would have to be careful not to cover any exam material directly, we could cover material from each "subject" the exam covers, as well as real-life situation California LS's deal with in their own practices. We might also discuss important state laws that pertain to surveying, important court cases that affect property in California, and matters of ethics and business management. I reallty think there would be no shortage of information to talk about. I know I would be very excited at the opportunity to learn from not only those in my own office, but surveyors around the state. Many like Scott Tikalsky, Ian Wilson, and others have already helped me immensely with surveying questions on this forums. Wouldn't it be great if we could organize that assistance and offer it to all the LSIT's in the state? If this inital plan was a success, we might organize practice exams, work shops, and volunteer projects that help young surveyors gain the experience thay need to pass the exam. (Imagine getting a group of LSIT's together to create a control network for a rural county, investigating the historical boundaries of a rancho, or put together a GIS for land records for a small municipality. There is a lot of untapped potential here.) All of this would accomplish two goals:

(1) Help those interested in obtaining licensure as a land surveyor become better land
surveyors before they are licensed. (2) Helping those that put forth the effort to learn gain the
knowledge they need to pass the LS exam.

I would be willing to put this type of organization together, with some assistance from others,
of course. I would much rather invest time in this type of endeavor, than invest in the effort to
become licensed in a neighboring state.

I welcome your thoughts and comments.

The Sunburned Surveyor

Patrick Tami
08-20-2004, 10:25 AM
Sunburned Surveyor

You have the right idea, I agree with you about trying to help the exam candidates. In fact I think this is the exact goal the CLSA president Bob Hart stated in his president's message in the spring 2004 California Surveyor magazine. Would you volunteer your time and efforts to help his committee push this along? Is there anyone else out there who called, wrote or replied to president Hart after his article? We have some momentum right now lets keep it going.

Pat

Sunburned_Surveyor
08-20-2004, 02:42 PM
You just let me know who I need to talk to, and I'll help out in whatever way I can....

The Sunburned Surveyor

ca_surveyor
08-23-2004, 02:33 PM
Sunburned,

I agree that education is very important. However, it should start first at the job. Your supervisors should provide time and funding to assist all that want to get ahead. Also, the local CLSA chapters are a good source of education. I personally have taken my time to assist in the program along with education for the public. You have a great idea about using the internet. I would donate time for that effort. The bottom line is when it is your time, it will come. I tested three times in CA before getting mine. My thoughts are preparation and knowing how to get through the POINTS as fast and clear as possible. If you don't know the subject matter on the spot, go on to something that you have a chance for. Then come back to the others if time permits. As for NV, just got mine last month. It was easier and a shorter exam. But then again, I spent years getting ready for CA.
Please feel free to contact me at any time with questions.

Sunburned_Surveyor
08-24-2004, 06:04 AM
Thanks for the reply Dave. Although I have learned a great deal about surveying from my experience on the job, I think this avenue has its limits. Often times education and the advancement of the individual can be politely pushed aside if the individuals goals do not correspond with the company's goals, or if the money is tight. What if you work for an LS that doesn't take advantage fo his opportunity to Mentor? (Or one that just doesn't have the time because of his office responsibilities.) Why limit an LSIT's range of mentors to just one or two licensed surveyors when he can learn from those around the state? Just some thoughts I had. I believe the internet would provide an excellent forum for learning and discussion. I'll let you know if I am able to get something off the ground.

The Sunburned Surveyor

ca_surveyor
08-24-2004, 07:15 AM
Sunburned,

I agree that there are individuals and companies that sometimes are looking at the immediate dollar verses the long term positive side of training and the quality of their employees. From my Marine days the mission was first priority and second was people, however, good people make the mission happen with less effort.
As for not wanting to Mentor, they are selling themselves and the proffesion short. Keep on trying. Management should try to provide time for training or explaining processes that benefit all in the long run.
Keep me informed of any developments and remember you can always bounce questions or thoughts my way.

GregCVS
08-24-2004, 11:27 AM
It is because of dedicated employers and supervisors that I have learned so much so fast. Those same people continually push me to set goals and achieve them. They encourage me to ALWAYS go to school AND ask questions. I can not thank all of the mentors, that I have right now and in years past, enough. I am very fortunate to be in my situation. The benefits of my environment are that I can do more with less oversight; now that's what managers should be striving for! I am grateful for what they give to me and I want to give it back in the form of a job well done.

Someone once told me to "surround yourself with successful people, and their success will rub off." Well, they're sort of right. Those around you can make you or break you.

True_Line
08-24-2004, 05:15 PM
Some firms are better than others at mentoring and training. I was taught (too many years ago!) that if I teach the "new guy" how to do my job - I will move up the Corporate ladder. This has been and continues to be the correct way to run a business. Some bosses are afraid to pass along knowledge - they fear it will lower their status. I feel sorry for their employees.

The firm I'm with in Stockton, prides itself on training and mentoring all employees. Hopefully Sunburned and others will eventually experience the true knowledge that comes from long term mentoring.

landbutcher
08-26-2004, 06:00 PM
You would have to contact someone in the Orange County Chap that knows more about it than me, but I believe they were offering free tutoring sessions for the LS and no one taking the test, or very few, took part.

GregCVS
08-27-2004, 06:05 AM
I just heard from last years surveying instructor that they had 50 students show up to take the basic surveying course. Keep in mind that last year they had about 15 students. This is the "Plumb bob 101" that many of us younger surveyors don't want to take because we think we know the basics. My instructor made us put away our HP 48's and the like, so that we would be ready for the LSIT. Not only did we learn the basics of operating an instrument, we learned how to crunch the data from start to finish with a basic $12.00 calculator. My passing of the LSIT is a direct result of that class. Also, I have been told by school officials that other local (southern CA.) community colleges have ended their survey classes.

P.S. I work 7 days a week, coach my son's team, and go to school. It's hard but that is what I have to do.