Issues facing Land Surveyors today

[kenwood]

For those of you who are not members of CELSOC you should know that the 2003 state conference is being held in Santa Rosa net spring. What is signifiant is that as a part of the conference there will be a round table discussion on the issues we as land surveyors are facing.

I have been asked to put together a list of topics for consideration to be discussed during the conference. I am seeking input from those of you having any ideas on the subject.
This is an open discussion and can be on any subject matter relating to the profession. If you have any ideas, concerns and/or suggestions please post them on the discussion board.

[Dave Karoly, PLS]

There is a inadequate supply of education available. Fresno State is the only 4 year program in California; a state with 40 million people.

We need to focus on the low pass rates for the exam. More education would be a good start.

[Mike Butcher]

How about Engineers releasing their CAD files to contractors so they can verify quantities using RTK. The next step is the contractor staking their own grading, all they need is the control.

The next phone call is placed to the surveyor requesting a copy of the surveyors control points.

Would the contractor be surveying?

If the surveyor releases his control values will he/she be aiding and abetting unlicensed practice?

[Bob Hart]

When you accept an engagement that includes as a deliverable the Cad files then you are fullfilling the contract task order. If the contractor has no way to verify his pay quantities he must trust you? The issue is not pay quantities, but protected practise for land surveyors. How long will it take for the contractor to utilize GPS machine controls with a real time DTM and bypass the surveyor altogether. Tommorrows contract will require the establishment of project control coordinates and the boundaries, and when the grading is done the property corners and just maybe an as-built as required in the uniform building code. Enforcement of existing LS Act provisions will prohibit contractors from staking fixed civil works. Our profession needs to have legislation that strengthens the enforcement of existing practise and work to establish a network of partners in the construction, building and manufacturers industry that recognize the importance of professional responsibility in the market place.
Bob Hart

[kenwood]

Over the last two decades it has become much eaiser for laymen to do what we "land surveyors" do. The leap in technology has spawned a new threat to the land surveying profession. One example is that before the age of GPS and CAD most laymen didn't have any idea how to produce a topo map. In the not to distant past one had to possess a basic understanding of geometry, trigonometry and surveying/drafting techniques to put together a topo map. Today all it takes is a rented GPS unit, a little training in data collection techniques, the ability to operate CAD software and viola! This says nothing of having any knowledge or understanding of elevation datums, coordinate systems and accuracy standards.

This may not sound like much of a problem, but its the tip of the iceberg. In my area of northern CA the wine industry has generated a need for large area contour maps that were once the domain of areial photogramatrists. Today one person with a relatively inexpensive GPS unit and CAD software loaded on a computer can put out a map for about the same cost of having an aerial topo flown. It doesn't take much effort to find any number non licensed companies and/or individuals offering topo mappping products to the wine industry under the guise of GIS. (Try mapmakingsystems.com or mikebobbit.com)

I bring up the GIS community because they (as a group) are resistant to any sort of state certificatioin or licensing. How long is it going to take before land surveyors lose topo mapping as a speciality of the profession because the GIS practioners can operate GPS equipment.

The construction industry is moving in that direction also. I know of one construction company that routinely GPS surveys their spoil piles and excavation areas to verify dirt quantities for their clients. In their minds its no different than a grade setter determining cut and fill areas.

Non licensed practioners are certainly not a new problem. But, the availibilty of easy to use surveying equipment introduces a different set of circumstances for we surveyors and the consumming public.

[aquihugo]

Issues faced by California surveyors are the same all over the world.- I am an Argentinean surveyor, with 20 years of experience, a B. of Sc in LS, a PLS license in my native country, and an LSIT in the USA.- So, I am not knew to this business... Presently I am working in the UK as a Senior Land Surveyor, but have worked before in the USA (Hi, kenwood!) and have contacts in France, Chile and Australia.-

The issue is always the same: other professions because they loose their market share, are too many for their market (i.e: architects...), consider us second class professionals (i.e: civil engineers, but they say nothing while profiting from the LS industry), expand their own market (agricultural engineers doing rural surveying), and the list goes on and on and on and on... overlap our market (it is not ours if we do not secure it EVERY day).- I've seen this problem everywhere.- Here in the UK is even worst: there is no need for a license to practise Land Surveying... (they do not even had a land registration system in place!!).- In the meantime and while we still look our belly buttons, those competitors fly over our achievements and take them as theirs.-

Solutions?: maybe there are, surely there are solutions.- A bunch of them, want to hear some propositions?:

1) we MUST be formally educated persons, the 2 year degree program has to be a thing of the past, we need education in order to upscale ourselves in the social scale, nobody else is going to do that for us.- Just to learn, look at the Canadians, or the French.- So my proposal for the meeting is: get more education.-

2) we MUST evolve towards those other business than otherwise walk away, as they have done in the past.- Photogrammetry is a part of Land Surveying, not a different science.- GIS is a field where we HAVE to get our grips on at once... not something we look from far away (we might get sick if we get involved so better stay away...).- Proposal: expand into other business

3) charge MORE for our services, not less.- Proposal: raise fees

4) be more competitive, close the market even further for ourselves and start taking back the market shares we have lost so far.- Proposal: act more and more as a Professional corporation

5) we have to become more businessmen than ever before.- Of course we all LOVE (to madness) to get muddy, cut trees, dig for corners, hammer in control points and climb mountains, BUT we MUST leave behind the image of tank top guys chewing gum and wear nice suits, get chunky contracts and sell our services way up high without leaving the mom and pop property surveys>- Proposal: expand the business

I am sorry if somebody gets offended.- It is not my intention, nevertheless.- Land Surveyors are my colleagues and my peers, so I am incapable of offending them.- Maybe because I am not a Native speaker of English, I might have made (I do make them everyday, but I am learning anyway) some grammatical mistakes, for which I ask for forgiveness.-

Unfortunately this is a society driven by social scale positioning, and today we are hanging from the middle... down.-

Surveyors, wake up!.-

I am proud to be part of a Profession that has been on earth for the last 5,000 years, and I am decided to do my part to assure we will be here for the next 5,000... so, let’s go for it!

Ciao now.-

Hugo Mendez